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Will all the pastor-teachers please stand up?

Posted by on Aug 22, 2011 in blog links, spiritual gifts | 10 comments

Will all the pastor-teachers please stand up?

Will all the pastor-teacher please stand up? Now everyone else, take a seat and listen.

Miguel at “God-Directed Deviations” continues to write very good posts concerning the church and Scripture. His latest post is called “Pastor-Teacher, The Odd Couple?

In this post, Miguel is asking about the gift of “pastoring-teaching” as listed among the other gifted individuals in Ephesians 4:11.

His post, mainly questions, is centered around the following very important question: “If you necessarily connect the Ephesians 4 giftings of Pastor and teacher then aren’t you assuming that one who shepherds can also teach and vice versa?

I think that grammatically Paul connects the gift of sherpherding and the gift of teaching in that verse, but I do not think that he was equating the two. Of course, as one commenter has already pointed out, the primary problem today is not the way Paul connects or does not connect shepherding and teaching, but the way the giftings are then associated with “offices” and authority within the church.

So, what do you think? What is the relationship between the gift of shepherding and the gift of pastoring in Ephesians 4:11 and among the church?


10 Comments

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  1. 8-22-2011

    “…the primary problem today is not the way Paul connects or does not connect shepherding and teaching, but the way the giftings are then associated with “offices” and authority within the church.”

    That’s my thought too. However, they sure do seem to manifest hand-in-hand.

  2. 8-22-2011

    I’m not so sure about that Esther.

  3. 8-22-2011

    Esther,

    Do you mean that the giftings of shepherding and teaching seem to manifest authority among the church today or among the church in Scripture?

    -Alan

  4. 8-22-2011

    Alan,

    I have always understood that gift, “doma” δῶμα in Eph 4,was a gift of a physical nature, in this case persons given to fulfill a function, and that originally the word referred to an edifice of some kind or a roof, as opposed to “charisma”, χάρισμα a divine grace.

    The charism/s, gifts of a spiritual nature, given to the Body were used by the “doma” as they are amongst all the members of the Body.

    Correct me if I am wrong.

  5. 8-22-2011

    Is the pastor/teacher marriage in Eph. 4:11 based purely in the omitting of καί in NA27?

  6. 8-22-2011

    Aussie John,

    Both terms for gift (doma and doreia) are used in Ephesians 4, one in verse 7 and the other in verse 8. They seem to be synonmous to me.

    In Paul’s spiritual gifts list, he often switches back and forth between the gifts themselves and gifted individuals. Again, I’m not sure that he’s trying to make a distinction. For the church, the gifts are only beneficial when exercised by someone (the gifted individual).

    Brandon,

    There’s not a καί omitted in the NA27 text in Eph 4:11. Both the NA27 and the Byzantine text have καί between “shepherds” and “teachers.” The form of the sentence, with conjunctions and definite articles indicate that there are four items listed, with the last item a double item: 1) apostles, 2) prophets, 3) evangelists, and 4) shepherds and teachers.

    -Alan

  7. 8-22-2011

    “What is the relationship between the gift of shepherding and the gift of pastoring in Ephesians 4:11 and among the church?”

    I don’t know the Greek here like the rest, but could it be related to the phrase, “people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” Perhaps it touches on the method of teaching. Our model tends to emphasize a guy standing at the front of the room (or on the radio, TV or in a book) and telling people what’s what. The biblical model of discipleship laid out by Jesus appears to be more doing life, doing the mission, together. That makes discipleship/teaching a close contact sport. I’m wondering.

  8. 8-22-2011

    Alan, You are right. I misread the liner notes of 4:8 instead. The correct note drew attention to the peculiarity of the second conjunction.

    */me Smacks head on the NA27 for which I do not carry a licence*
    */me is happy he will not have to think the second conjunction has disputed authority for long*.
    */me thinks a little knowledge is a loaded shotgun with no safety in the hands of a pre-schooler*.
    */me is sorry*.

  9. 8-23-2011

    Dan,

    I think you’re right about the connection between sharing life and teaching. Is that why Paul connecting shepherding and teaching? Perhaps.

    Brandon,

    No problem… happens to me all the time. :)

    -Alan

  10. 8-24-2011

    Alan,

    I was aware of the two different uses of the word we translate as “gift”. Think I will hold my view for a little longer :)

    By the way, when I said. “persons given to fulfill a function”, I wasn’t inferring “titled” persons, or persons more entitled, or more equal and having more authority than every other member of the congregation. I see the terms “apostles, prophets, evangelists,pastors and teachers” as descriptive of their function, and much needed, for that particular stage of the development of the church.

    “For the church, the gifts are only beneficial when exercised by someone (the gifted individual)”. You do tempt me:)