I believe that elders and other leaders are very important for the health of the church, just like all believers are very important for the health of the church. Elders primarily provide a living, more mature example for other believers, especially in the area of serving others.

I do not believe that Scripture ascribes any specific responsibilities to elders on the basis of their being elders. Instead, all believers are responsibility to one another and should function as the Spirit gifts them and gives them opportunity.

As to the issue of pay for elders, that is too big of an issue for a comment. However, if you’re interested, I’ve written alot about this on this blog. In summary, I do not believe that Scripture supports paying a salary to an elder because they are an elder and in order for them to perform certain functions. I think 1 Corinthians 9 refers to apostles – those travelling away from home and their source of work and support (see the first few verses). I think Acts 20 – especially the last few verses – lays down the pattern for elders – they are to work with their hands so that they can support themselves and others and they should receive their support from others.

-Alan

I do not believe in the priesthood of a few. I do however believe that there are those who stand out amongst the people of God as outstanding teachers who have a great part in the oversight and shaping of the theological understanding of the people of God.

“Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.”

1 Tim 5:17-18 (KJV)

They are servants just as others, yet happen to be gifted in this area.

Consider Christ’s teaching,

“The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.”

Matt 10:24-25 (KJV)

All that to say, that there is a need for gifted teachers in the Church that do stand out because of their giftedness, yet let them(teachers) not think they are more priestly.

Also, what is your understanding of Paul here?

“For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Yet he has never availed himself of his rights
15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
making himself, rather, the servant of all
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1 Cor 9:9-19 (KJV)

Do gifted gospel teachers have the right of support from the Church?

Is Paul calling us to lay aside this ancient practice?

Yes, there are different gifts given to believers. But, all believers are given gifts in order to serve one another. However, if you look up “preaching”, “baptistm”, “Lord’s Supper”, or caring for people (pastoral care), I think you’ll find that those responsibilities are not limited to believers with only certain giftings. Instead, we are all responsible for these.

Perhaps, most importantly, if you read the verses immediately before 1 Cor 12:28, you’ll find that the parts of the body that seem most important (apostles, teachers, prophets, elders, etc. ?) are actually not as important as the parts of the body that seem least important.

Meanwhile, the church continually gets this backwards – holding as most important those gifted individuals that seem most important, while others are limited by the church and church leaders in the service they are allowed to offer.

-Alan

How about this I Cor 12:4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord….28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers?…”

It seems to me that the answer to the rhetorical questions “Are all apostles, are all teachers…” is No.

You’re asking very good questions. I hope you decide to keep reading and keep commenting on my blog.

-Alan

I appreciate all you do in this post and in your own ministy (meaning – life service). Your blog is very challenging for me – it always stretches my mind and takes me down new paths.

Bethany

I appreciate your comment, and the thought that went into it. We are in agreement that all are priests and all have the responsibilities of making disciples, baptizing, and teaching.

Remember that in this post I am responding to a book which claims that there is a piesthood of the few which somehow supercedes the priesthood of all.

I understand your concerns about women who would “stand up at the pulpit and preach to us a fine exegetical sermon”. To be honest, this was not in my mind at all in this post.

I think some of the misunderstanding comes from our different uses of the same terms. I try to use biblical terms with their biblical meanings, not the modern church culture meanings. For example, the term “preach” simply means “proclaim the gospel”, which, as you pointed out, all believers should do. The term “minister” means “serve”, and the term “ministry” means “service”.

Other phrases like “pulpit”, “worship service”, “local church”, “universal church”, etc. are more man-made distinctions that aren’t found in Scripture.

My purpose in this post is to say that all believers have the responsibility of serving one another and the world through the gifts that the Spirit gives them. This responsibility is not just for a few, but for all.

To answer one of your questions: No, I would not have a problem with a women preaching (proclaiming the gospel), administering the sacraments, or pastoring (caring for) people. Why? Because I think these distinctions are man-made, not scriptural. Note, doing these things is not the same as being an elder. Again, its man and our church traditions who have decided that only elders do these things.

I think that when elders stop trying to handle all the service (i.e. “ministry”) for the church (i.e. “local church” and “universal church”) – even during the church meeting (i.e. “worship service”) – then the body of Christ will be strengthened and maturied through the working and gifting of all the members.

-Alan

So, my first understanding is that – Theology and Ecclesiology are not mtutally exclusive. (Maybe I should have written an e-mail, this may be long).

Secondly, I had to ask myself “How does one define preisthood?” Because of the priestly duties I see in the OT, and because of what I read in Heb 4:15-16 – I have to assume that priesthood is about having access to God, through our now-permanent mediator, Jesus Christ.

Now that I established that much in my mind, I have to go one step further… if all believers have Jesus Christ as their mediator, then we are all priests. This is of course confirmed in I Peter 2:9-11, (as Peter refers back to many mentions in Deuteronomy.)
I also see in I Peter 2:9-11 that being a priesthood of believers is not an end in itself. The end is “that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light” (1 Peter 2:9 – KJV) So, if we couple that verse with Matthew 28:18-20, it is plain that we are all commissioned to share the Gospel, disciple, and baptize.

So, if I already agree to all these things, then why do I feel so confused by this post of yours, Alan? I think it is because I feel like you have somehow blurred the line between people of the priesthood, and the people that are to be elders. And, I think that you meant to – you wanted to make me think. But, here is what scares me – this is why the red flags keep popping up. Becuase, someone could easily read what you have written and then take that in this direction: If we are all priests, then a woman has just as much a right as a man to stand up at the pulpit and preach to us a fine exegetical sermon. (So long as she is a true believer).

Do you see where I am coming from? Maybe I sound really immature, but my mind is still not quite able to encompass all that you have said. Indeed, you did not even mention this idea – I am just saying that this line of thought could so easily lead into something much different than you intended.

You write, “But, leaders are not important because they are set apart for special duties, such as preaching, administering the sacraments, or pastoral care. Instead, they are important as an example to all believers as to how they ALL should be preaching, administering the sacraments, and caring for people – as well as other God-given responsibilities.” OK, then I have to ask – if we are all priests, and that is all that is necesary to be a leader, then what prevents a woman in ministry? (You probably know that I think that I Tim 3 would deny such a claim.)

I guess, what I am looking for is some kind of thorough disclaimer. Because, right now, I am understanding (or maybe misunderstanding) that you would say everyone (both male and female)has the same jobs/rolls/duties in the church (so long as it is your gift). So, can you clarify?

Are you speaking within the universal church context or local church when you say: “As I study Scripture, I cannot find where only a few are given the responsibility of preaching (proclaiming the good news), administering the sacraments (baptizing and breaking bread – the Lord’s Supper), or pastoral care (caring for one another). Instead, I see where all believers are given these responsibilities.”

Are you saying that you would have no problem with a woman doing these duties universally?, or in a worship setting?

Maybe I am way off base with my line of thought here – and if I am, feel free to delete this comment and reply via e-mail. As I read the other comments, I am surprised that no one else seems troubled by these things.

If, I have totally misunderstood, and you are just saying that “all Christians ought to be Christians,” then I completely agree.

Please let me know if I am way off-base here.

Some of my readers are in seminary, some have been to seminary, some have never been to seminary. I enjoy the variety – in fact, I think its important.

Also, as a child of God, indwelled by the Spirit, you are totally qualified to share your opinion – especially here.

-Alan

So much of what you write is a new idea to me… I need to process a long time before saying anything!