the weblog of Alan Knox

The Spirit and The Church…

Posted by on Mar 19, 2007 in blog links, definition | 12 comments

Dan over at “Cerulean Sanctum” examines the relationship between the Holy Spirit and the church in his article titled “The Holy Who?” Before you read the article, be forewarned: He asks some difficult questions that we tend to sweep under the rug. Do we truly rely on the power of the Holy Spirit, or are we doing just fine on our own, thank you very much?

Consider these paragraphs:

The inescapable truth is that every aspect of Church that we practice today existed before the Holy Spirit was given, yet we had no Church! The Church exists for one reason only, and that’s the Lord placed His Spirit inside us! Community existed, religious practice existed, love existed, service existed, even the Scriptures existed, but the Holy Spirit did not make his dwelling place in human beings.

Folks, the mark of the Church must always be the Holy Spirit in us. Everything else can be copied by other religions. But they do not have the Holy Spirit. He’s the promise. He’s the seal. He’s the power!

Now, as you read the article, you may feel that Dan is stepping on your toes. However, if you read carefully, you’ll see that Dan is stepping on the toes of many different flavors of the church (charismatic, institutional, emerging…) – apparently Dan has big feet.

I agree with Dan that there is no church without from the Holy Spirit. How can we ensure that we are relying on the Holy Spirit and not relying on our own ingenuity, intelligence, and creativity?


12 Comments

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  1. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  2. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  3. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  4. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  5. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  6. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  7. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  8. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  9. 3-19-2007

    Alan-
    Read the “Holy Who” blog by Dan Edelen, and I also agree that the Holy Spirit seems to be absent from both the Emergent conversation and from the Church as it operates today.
    Is it any wonder? We have become a corporation without any CEO. We have allowed the religious industry to dictate what is taught and thought in our local churches, both by subscribing to hierarchal control over our congregations and by lusting after name brand identification. Our children are entertained by cartoons, and our people are wooed by growth and technology.
    If there is room for the voice of the Holy Spirit in all this, He may be found in the back row or in the balcony. And if He speaks, He will have to shout over the band.
    Perhaps the Emergent writers haven’t written about the Holy Spirit because they knew He wouldn’t be missed.
    Kat

  10. 3-19-2007

    Kat,

    Thank you for including your name. It seemed strange to always call you “Elder’s Wife”. Again, excellent comment! Do we realize how much we truly rely on God and His Spirit?

    -Alan

  11. 3-19-2007

    This is not an easy one for me. I agree. The Spirit makes the difference. But in what way. Certainly by gifts and fruit in community.

    But I prefer to see it as getting us to be the Body of Christ in mission in this world. We need to be clear as to what the Spirit is doing with us on earth.

    Otherwise you have what I’ve seen so much. A bunch of looking for this and that and everything else in the Spirit’s work, of which they can all be there. But are beside the main point. We’re Christ’s Body, no less, on this earth. To each other, and to the world, for the glory of God.

    I admit, I didn’t take the time to look at Dan’s blog. But just took it from what you say here. Knowing him, he probably covered this in some way, and more.

  12. 3-19-2007

    Ted,

    Perhaps 1 Cor 12:7 helps in this area. The Spirit gifts us to help others. The Spirit indwells us to change us and to impact our world.

    -Alan